icarus_chained: Sex and Relationships Post

... Okay. I'm just going to preface this with some information, so can you judge just how much I'm talking out of my arse. I have never been in a relationship (barring two weeks once when I was 18, which I found ... strange and bizarre, and mildly uncomfortable). I am fairly contently asexual, and have never noticably felt sexual attraction for ... well, anyone. I'm also an Aspie, and

unsocial, to the point where most social situations (at least without a set purpose like a shared interest/activity) sort of baffle me.

I am also, for the record, in my mid-twenties, and perfectly content with all of the above, though it's taken me a lot of work to get to that point.

Now. I've been involved recently in a lot of conversations about relationships, and infidelity in particular (how, I'm not sure, why do people ask me these things, is it not obvious I'm sort of woefully unqualified to have an opinion?). Also, conversations about polyamory and open relationships, and just ... relationships involving multiple people, basically. People asking me what do I think of this, and how would I feel if that (usually devolving, once I've given my answer, to how the hell can you think that), and so on and so forth.

I do, in fact, have an opinion. Just the one, actually. Just from a general overview of all those conversations and scenarios and questions. The opinion follows thusly:

Why the fuck do people not TALK about these things, before getting into relationships (or at least in the early stages of one)?

Actually, why do people not talk in general? At least half the problems people posit in these conversations would have been, if not solved, at least revealed at a much earlier date, if it was socially acceptable to set boundaries before getting heavily involved in a relationship.

*rubs face* What I mean is, do people not have conversations where they inform each other that, say, they've historically had an active libido, and there may be negotiation required at a later date, depending on how things go? That they've had a wide and varied sexual history in a short space recently, and may have trouble adjusting to a monogamous relationship? Or, on the other end, that they've historically had very little libido, and while they're open to experimenting with a sexual partner, they may have to discuss things later if it's becoming obvious that they require/desire far less sex than their partner? Or, you know, any number of other considerations?

These, to me, seem like obvious things you might want to discuss beforehand (or during, if you're the kind who prefers to deal with problems as they emerge). But nobody seems to (or at least, not in the scenarios they posit when asking me what I think).

*rubs face* There seems to be an encoded relationship paradigm, is my point. That of a monogamous, sexual relationship between two people (gender optional, this seems to apply across the sexual-orientation divide), and people seem to automatically assume that any relationship they're likely to get involved in is going to default to that paradigm. So. They don't talk about it. They don't discuss boundaries beforehand, they don't lay ground rules about things like wanting extra partners (it seems to be assumed there's a basic 'don't cheat on me, don't desire anyone but me, don't discuss with me the possibility you might desire other people beyond me', which ... is probably not helpful, especially if the one of the people is one of those people with an active libido who's prone to passing attractions), they don't seem to leave provisions for discussing potential changes as they come up. Because, apparently, they think they don't need to.

Which isn't bad, maybe most people do just want monogamous sexual relationships with single partners. But. There doesn't seem to be any leeway to check, outside of certain circles. It's just automatically assumed that it will be the default. If nobody asks, if nobody discusses it, then there's no options for people outside that paradigm to ... inform potential partners? Or actual partners, without falling into panic?

I have a major problem with most infidelity scenarios, yes, but it's with the fact that they kept secrets, not necessarily that they desired other people. It's honesty I'm looking for, and dishonesty I can't forgive, not whatever their desires are (well, within certain bounds, but that's more related to the 'keep it consensual at all times, or, yes, I will judge you').

*rubs eyes* Okay. One of the questions posited to me was 'how would you feel if someone cheated on you?'. I'm assuming the person meant sexually. Though, sexual vs romantic cheating is actually a very necessary discussion in its own right, but holding on that for a second. Now.

My response was, it depends. My major initial problem will be that the person presumably acted without asking me, and probably kept it secret. That will be a problem regardless, and will have to be dealt with. But the cheating itself ...

If it was a first time (as in, first time I found out), I'll want to know my partner's reasons. Did they need more sex than we had within our own relationship, did they want variety, were they drunk and having problems with consent, what happened. Or, were they perhaps looking for a relationship with another person, either instead of or alongside ours.

None of those has more validity to me than the others (though in the case that they weren't fully capable of consenting, someone is going to get yelled at, and it's not going to be my partner). I'd just need to know, so we could best figure out where to go from there.

If the problem is with how much sex they get vs how much sex they want, and what kind, the discussion will move to what compromises we're willing to make to that end, or whether an open relationship where they engage in outside sex might be an option. (Though, I do have to clarify ... barring no-strings-attached one night stands, which I understand have their own ettiquette, if they're having sex with specific other people, they'll need to tell the other partners too, because I think that's a thing someone should know they're getting into, even if it's only on the outskirts).

If they want a relationship, as in if the cheating was romantic and not just sexual, then the discussion is probably going to be a lot harder, and should ideally involve the third party as well.

In the posited circumstance, of course, I apparently never sat down with my partner and asked them what they wanted, which I would have prefered to do, myself, before it came to that (like, at the start of the relationship).

Granted, some things come out of the blue, for them as much as me. Maybe they'd never wanted anyone else before this one person, and had no idea how to deal with that. But. You know. That would be the time you'd need to have a discussion, yes?

The reason I will forgive the first time they lied and went behind my back (and only the first time), is because I am aware that there is a societal paradigm, and I am aware that people seem not to actually have these conversations, and, for the first time only, you get the benefit of the doubt in that you might not have known you could actually discuss this with me without getting dumped straight out of the gate. (Though, again, personally I'm planning, should the question of a relationship ever come up, to open that conversation myself, at or close to the get go).

If, after that discussion, and presuming we've decided to stay in a relationship, they decide to go behind my back again, and do things against the boundaries we laid out for the relationship, then we've got a problem, and hell yes, I will most likely blow my stack and consider them a betraying, cheating bitch/bastard.

That was my response to the posited 'cheating' situation, and my reasons for it.

... It got me the 'how can you say that' reaction. Because if someone is cheating on you, that means the person they were cheating on you with has something that you don't, and that means you're not good enough.

Which, um. I'm not sure follows. It might, maybe my partner would be happier/more satisfied with someone other than me, but ... Um. A) That doesn't actually mean I'm worth less, and b) wouldn't it be better to know that? I mean, regardless of how good or bad the relationship is, regardless of what the other person wants and why, isn't it better to know, so you can decide what to do from there?

Maybe you just honestly can't fulfill each other's needs. That doesn't mean you're lesser than whoever they were cheating with, it just means you and your partner are not as well suited as you thought and/or that you need to have a discussion on needs. Maybe you can compromise to match each other better, or bring in other people, or maybe you decide the relationship won't work based on what you want vs what they want, and decide to end it. Either way. Once you actually know who each other is, and what you want, you can go from there.

(And if it turns out that said partner really just is a cheating bitch/bastard who doesn't really care what you think ... again, better to know, yes? So you can dump their ass?)

Now, to understand, that's me, and in the relatively unlikely situation that I'll ever be in a relationship to start with, I'll be going into it with the knowledge that my sexual needs are likely to differ from my partner's in the first place (asexual, here, so). I won't be expecting the paradigm-standard relationship to start with, so I won't have the same views as most people in that situation.

Also, as an Aspie, my social needs are also different to start with, and my primary social desire is for clarity and people saying what they hell they mean, and what the hell they need. I don't pick up social cues, I don't know how the social paradigms of most relationships are supposed to work (in practice, as opposed to theory, I mean), I actually can't default to standard even if I wanted to.

I just ... It just seems like most people only find out about their partner's desires after the fact (again, in the scenarios as posited to me). That they don't discuss things because, well, even asking "If I need/want other partners from time to time, will that bother you?" is enough to shut a lot of relationships down before they start, so ... people don't. They don't warn each other (are afraid to?), they don't lay boundaries because it's assumed that they'll automatically fall within the socially programmed ones, so why do they need to discuss it? If things happen outside the boundaries they thought they fit into ... It seems like they just automatically panic (not, admittedly, unjustifiably) and shut things down, because there's no precedent for it within the mindset. *shrugs*

Which isn't their fault, and I know most people will tell me that it's because people react emotionally, and emotions aren't logical, and I know that, but dammit, they should be! There should, to my mind, be at least a capacity to have an actual discussion of these things, without an automatic social default setting.

I think that's part of the reason the bdsm culture, from what I've heard of it, appeals somewhat to me. Not because of the roles or the paraphernalia or the sex, but because the discussion of boundaries and the provision for later negotiation of them is considered part of the ettiquette from the get go. There's no fuzzy social default, just actual, concrete negotiation. (From what I've heard, of course. I may be wrong, but that was the impression I'd gotten).

Oi vey. *rubs face* Look. I am aware that this is just my viewpoint. I refer you to the start of the post for all the myriad ways I am not in a position to have an opinion. But. Speaking as an asexual Aspie, looking out on this big, bewildering ball of confused social expectations and relationship failures ... My one question is still:

Why the fuck don't people TALK about this shit, without judging each other and themselves in every which direction, based on social paradigms of questionable validity to start with?

But then, to repeat, Aspie. I just bascially prefer concrete negotiation to social expectation in everything. *smiles tiredly* Also, I tend to think the social paradigms can go fuck themselves. I prefer dealing with the people actually to hand.

Right. Opinions, given as asked for. Shutting up now.

Source: http://icarus-chained.livejournal.com/362027.html

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